《财富》（中文版）董事长兼总编辑高德思（Thomas D. Gorman）独家采访管理大师吉姆•柯林斯（Jim Collins，因著有畅销书《从优秀到卓越》、《基业长青》而广为闻名）。吉姆•柯林斯就中国企业家面临的种种问题，包括领导力、继任计划、商业教育、核心价值等提出了一系列广泛而深刻的看法和建议。敬请关注！
双语访谈实录：
Thomas D. Gorman: First of all, I want to thank you for taking time to be with us today and particularly I know you're in "monk mode", as it has been described, and it's a very special generosity that we appreciate.
Jim Collins: I am in monk mode.
Thomas D. Gorman: This really is as I see it, a continuation of a conversation that we began very briefly in 2001.
Jim Collins: 2001.
Thomas D. Gorman: After you gave an inspired and I think an inspiring presentation to the Fortune Global Forum, which was held that year in Washington, DC. And 2001 stands out because you had published "Good to Great".
高德思：那一年，在华盛顿举办的《财富》全球论坛（Fortune Global Forum）上，你做了非常精彩、而且非常鼓舞人心的发言，然后我们简短交谈过。之所以强调2001年，是因为你在那一年出版了《从优秀到卓越》。
吉姆·柯林斯：是的。
Thomas D. Gorman: And that was the subject of your presentation, which was a very memorable presentation. 2001 was of course also a very momentous year for China, it was the year that China entered the World Trade Organization, and that was a historic catalyst for all kinds of changes, including in the economics sphere, investment sphere and in terms of integration of China with the world economy. Looking back to that period of time, we had ten Chinese companies on the Fortune Global 500 list. By contrast in 2009 we had 37. That's incredible growth, obviously, in a very short period of time. And in that same time span -- 2001 to 2009 -- 50%, actually more than 50% growth in the number of publicly listed Chinese's companies. Whether listed abroad or in the domestic market, so also a lot of change there. Meanwhile, we've just been through the most turbulent period the world economy has seen in living memory.
Jim Collins: Yeah.
Thomas D. Gorman: So all of these things strike me as giving us a very opportune moment in which to consider the principles of greatness that you have written about, so eloquently, how they may apply to this phenomenal growth of the Chinese corporate universe, and also, in the context of the current turbulence that we're living through, which I know is the subject of the book you're working on now.
Jim Collins: It's sort of about the permanent turbulence I think we'll be in.
Thomas D. Gorman: Right. So I thought this would be a great place to revisit some of these subjects and I can't think of a better place to start, than the first sentence of "Good to Great" which is of course, "Good is the enemy of great" and I'd be interested in your thoughts about the universality of that. Do you think that applies as much to companies in China or any other country as it does to the (U.S. company) research set that lead you to that observation?
Jim Collins: Well, we were speaking a moment ago about the rise of the business group in China today, and how there are business leaders who want to build a great company. And there's a big difference between having a good company that is successful or just being a successful person, or just making a lot of money, and building a great institution, a great company, something that in my mind, a really great company is all about, in the end is a company that delivers such exceptional results. And makes such a distinctive impact on the world it touches. Whether it's a small world or a big world, that if you took it away, it would leave an unfillable hole that couldn't be filled by any other institution. That you've built something that is truly distinctively special and exceptional in how well it performs. And that you can't do by simply saying, good enough is, you have to say, no, in order to really be indispensable, to truly reach that point, where something would be lost if we went away. That requires a dedication to building something far more than just successful, which is: a great company.