我得到过的最佳建议

4.西尔维亚•马修斯•伯韦尔和罗伯特•鲁宾

就在《财富》杂志（Fortune）与48岁的白宫预算主管西尔维•马修斯、75岁的前财政部长罗伯特•鲁宾坐而论道之时，美国离债务违约还有两天。那是一个可怕的时刻。避免灾难的协议将于第二天出现，但那天早上，当我们于艾森豪威尔办公楼的宽敞会议室碰面时，前景仍然不明朗。伯韦尔有过这样的经历。1995年，她在财政部工作，是鲁宾的参谋长。当时，面对立场类似强硬的众议院共和党人，两人编写了让联邦政府在此类危机中保持偿债能力的当代操作流程。

鲁宾：我们实际上是在1992年的总统选举中相识的。某人通过电话把我介绍给西尔维亚。我当时从来没听说过她。我发现这个年轻人在与媒体打交道和预判事情方面都有极好的感觉。所以，我想我有很多东西要向西尔维亚学习。

伯韦尔：我想说，鲍伯（即鲁宾）的风格是苏格拉底式（即通过提出问题，请对方解答，再根据对方的解答提出新的问题，从而引导对方得出提问者想要的结论——译注），非常对我这个希腊裔美国人的胃口。

鲁宾：我在大学里的一位教授说过，对几乎所有问题的最佳回答都是提出另一个问题。我相信这话是对的。预算危机期间，问题不是教任何人什么东西。问题实际上就是我们共同努力的方式。西尔维亚和我本人以及其他几位，包括我们的法律顾问，找出了从公务人员退休基金借款的方法。这个办法让我们有资源能在相当长的时间内支付美国的账单。

伯韦尔：我们当时正在做一件前无古人的新工作。

鲁宾：它就像是四维的国际象棋。如果有必要，就是再加上两维她也能玩。

伯韦尔：我们谈话的很多内容都涉及问答框架。

鲁宾：不常和媒体打交道的人容易在别人问你问题时简简单单地给出一个答案。但西尔维亚说：“要充分理解这个问题，就得拥有将它放入整体框架里的办法，让它可以得到充分的理解。”西尔维亚特别擅长这一点。（采访结束时，鲁宾起身对伯韦尔说：）祝你好运，去拯救美国吧。

4.Sylvia Mathews Burwell & Robert Rubin

The U.S. was two days from a debt default when Fortune sat down with White House budget director Sylvia Mathews Burwell, 48, and former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, 75. It was a scary moment. A deal to avert catastrophe would come together the next day, but that morning, as we gathered in an airy conference room in the Old Executive Office Building, the path forward was not clear. Burwell had been through this before -- she was Rubin's chief of staff at the Treasury Department in 1995. Then, facing similarly intransigent House Republicans threatening a debt default, the pair wrote the modern playbook for keeping the federal government solvent through such a crisis. --Tory Newmyer

Rubin: We actually met on the 1992 campaign. Somebody introduced me telephonically to Sylvia, who I'd never heard of. And I found here was this young person who had a tremendously good sense of how to deal with the press and see around corners. So I figured that I had a lot to learn from Sylvia.

Burwell: I would describe Bob's approach as Socratic, which is one that suits me as a Greek American.

Rubin: A professor I had in college said the best answer to almost any question is another question. And I believe that's right. During the budget crisis, it wasn't a matter of trying to teach anybody anything. It was really just the way we worked together. Sylvia and myself and a few other people, including our general counsel, figured out a way to borrow from the civil service pension funds, and that gave us the resources to continue to meet our bills for a long, long time.

Burwell: We were doing something new that hadn't been done before.

Rubin: It was sort of four-dimensional chess, and Sylvia could play the four dimensions plus another couple more if she had to.

Burwell: A lot of our conversations were about framing.

Rubin: If you weren't used to dealing with the press a lot, your tendency was, somebody would ask you a question and you'd just respond. But as Sylvia said, "If it's going to be digestible, you have to have some way of framing it that makes it digestible," and Sylvia was terrific at that. [The interview over, RUBIN stands and says to BURWELL] All right, good luck. Go save the country.