第二十讲：创业激情与员工敬业精神

高德思：让我们回到刚才提到的关于工作热情的话题。我们尤其需要在关键岗位上的富有热情的员工。您刚才将普遍的工作热情和关键人选的工作热情区分开来看待。

吉姆·柯林斯：关键职位。

高德思：对，关键职位。从衡量员工敬业度的角度来看，这揭示了哪些方面的重要性，或是相对意义上的重要性？这仅仅是一种学术层面的问题？还是说这非常关键，以至于我们可以认为工作热情是卓越公司背后的核心驱动力？

Thomas D. Gorman: Just back for a moment to the question of passion.Particularly for the key positions finding the people that have got the passion. You made the distinction between everybody having the passion and the key people.

Jim Collins: Key seats.

Thomas D. Gorman: Key seats. What does that say about the importance or relative importance of regularly measuring employee engagement? Is that sort of an academic issue or is it really critical to the extent that we think passion is a critical driver in great companies?

Jim Collins: I thought about your question on this and course the first thing I always do is go back to the data and ask myself, what's the evidence on this? And the notion of measuring employee engagement is relatively new. So, we don't find a lot of evidence in the history of dynasty eras that we studied, meaning not a lot of emphasis on measuring employee engagement. But, what I would say, is they had a very tactical sense of engagement, and part of what the leaders do, they had a very intuitive sense of when you were engaged and when you're not. Plus they would have feedback from customers and feedback from a variety of other things.

My own view is that really intensely engaged people are necessary for doing anything great. If you can measure it and you can see it going up or down, I can't see that as anything but a good thing.